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AT THE HEART OF IT – EPISODE 2

Monira Rahman

Hope and Health in Bangladesh

In this episode, we sit down with Monira Rahman, award-winning human rights activist, Ashoka Fellow, and founder of Innovation for Wellbeing Foundation. In Bangladesh, Monira has gained recognition for leading transformative efforts to combat acid violence against women and reform mental health policies. Today, Monira is activating and nurturing a growing network of changemakers in Bangladesh committed to enabling wellbeing for all.

In a special conversation recorded at Bangla Academy in Dhaka, Bangladesh, where Monira hosted the first regional wellbeing summit in Asia, Monira invited us to reflect on emerging paths for wellbeing. Let’s get to the heart of it.

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LISTEN TO EPISODE 2

Please note this episode contains references to mental illness and violence. Listener discretion is advised.

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This transcript has been edited for clarity

Hi there, before we get started, here’s a quick note from The Wellbeing Project. Today’s episode of At The Heart Of It features some conversations about mental illness and violence. Listener discretion is advised. Let’s get into the episode.

Welcome to At The Heart Of It, a podcast where we explore issues at the heart of our world’s biggest challenges and their solutions. We’re on a journey inward going into ourselves, reflecting on who we are, listening to humanity’s collective story. Our guides are the visionary leaders, activists, scholars, and practitioners who are changing the world and whose own inner journeys of wellbeing inspire their welldoing.

Today’s guest is someone who has dedicated her life to making Bangladesh a safer, healthier, and more inclusive place for everyone. Monira Rahman is an award-winning Bangladeshi human rights activist and Ashoka fellow. For more than 30 years, she has led efforts to transform social behaviours and reform government policies around violence against women and mental health in Bangladesh.

In a conversation live from the lush green gardens of Bangla academy in Dhaka, where Monira hosted the first regional wellbeing summit in Asia, Monira reflected on her life’s work and how wellbeing has inspired welldoing in her career. Throughout her career, she has been an advocate for caring for oneself and for others and today she’s sharing her story and inviting us all on a journey of wellbeing. Let’s get to the heart of it.

Madelaine VanDerHeyden (MV): Hi, Monira. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us.

Monira Rahman (MR): Hi, Madelaine. I’m very happy to join with you.

MV: So, Monira, we are here in Dhaka, Bangladesh. You are an internationally known, award- winning social changemaker. So tell us a little bit about your work and what you’ve been doing in Bangladesh.

MR: Well from my childhood, actually, I knew that there are inequality, injustice, and especially for girls and women in this country who are suppressed, oppressed, and their rights are not acknowledged. They’re not respected. And in that way, I started to find out what can be done or what is the solution.

First, it began with myself, to liberate myself from these limitations. But it’s quite unusual for a Bengali girl, a young girl, an adolescent girl of 13, 14, to be going out and doing things on her own. So it was not that welcomed by my family as such, but my mother was always encouraging me to be educated and to be independent. She was always inspiring me to work for the community, work for the people, serve for the people. So I was involved in many different kind of activities activism for women rights, especially for education for all.

When I was studying in Dhaka University, I was elected vice president of one of the female hall and that was quite rebellious, I should say, because there was military rule and therefore the students’ movement was suppressed even by the law enforcement agencies. So it was a very difficult time, but we really worked together and we got the democracy back. I did my Master’s in philosophy from Dhaka University and my first job was with Concerned Worldwide as a social worker. I was 24 and in a village where the government has a institution called Vagrant’s Home.

That means, for homeless people living on the street, the police sometimes put them in this institution in the name of rehabilitation. So it was a center accommodating 700 women and girls. And my first day was very, very striking. I saw a girl who had her hands tied behind her back lying on the feeder street looking at the sun on a very hot, humid day. And I just untied her and then it was big issue for the institution authority.

MV: And why was she tied up?

MR: Because it was a way of punishing someone. So I was called by the authority, but I answered them that I think any human being would untie her. Why not? So they couldn’t throw me out from the center. Then I found a Jominder building. That means it’s a very old building. It’s an abandoned building. It’s very damaged, no light. And there were hundreds of women there. And the authority said they are all mad, mad people. And Concern Wordlwide told me that I have to work with them. So it was 1992. There were no mental health support services in the country. I didn’t have any mental health background. I didn’t know what to do or how to support them. So I was looking for any model, any organization doing anything about mental health in the country.

For the first time, I came to know about psychosis, neurosis, depression, anxiety. So then I found one organization working with children with intellectual disability. By observing their work, I found some thing quite interesting. I bought some postcards, papers, color pencils, and then I was just sitting in that Jominder building and just seeing how the women respond.

After seven days, some of them came nearer to me.

MV: You were just sitting there and no one was approaching you? No one was talking to you?

MR: No.

MV: They didn’t want to come?

MR: Yeah. And then I found some people were started to fix a particular type of postcard. And I found that maybe that has a connection with them. So I started working on those areas with them. And I really would like to talk about one story that struck me and actually changed my perception about mental health.

So this woman called Rokea. She was a teacher of a village from Kishoreganj. Her husband was also a teacher. In 1974, in our country, there was a huge famine. So the relief was coming through the school and the head teacher was stealing the relief goods. Rokea saw that, and Rokea was raising her voice against the headteacher. Headteacher was not happy, and the headteacher said, “Rokea has become mad. Rokea is mad.” Rokea was trying to prove that she is not mad. Rather, this man is actually corrupted. But no one knew her, and a village woman was not supposed to raise her voice like that in public.

So she was held and tied and she was taken to a psychiatric department. And when she was going there, she thought she will complain to the education minister about the teacher. But when she was under treatment, under medication, she lost her consciousness. And, at one stage, she actually went out of the hospital. No one knew about that. She was on the street for several years. She can’t say how many years, but she was raped there. She had a baby, the baby died, and then she developed this psychiatric illness. At some stage, she was taken to this institution.

When I found her, she had bipolar mood disorder and she had severe mental illness. Then I invited some of the psychiatrists for their assessment, and Rokea started to receive medication and she was responding so well. She told me about her story.

So I knew that she was a teacher and I created a crèche facility in this institution. I appointed her as a crèche facility teacher. She was very happy. Then she said that she would like to see her daughter. So we took a permission from the authorities and took her to that village. But her husband didn’t accept her. They didn’t allow her to see her daughters. Her own family didn’t take her, so she had to come back. She relapsed. Her treatment started again. So my question at that time was, who is responsible for Rokea’s mental health? And why it is happening? Or if someone experienced this sort of mental illness, then how to support them? Because at that time there was only Pabna Mental Hospital and in Bangla, that means “mad peoples jail”. So people were taken there and tied and caged and treatment was only medication and it was very difficult for me to find any solutions locally because there was no other model.

So I actually created some livelihood options for these girls, these women, who were staying there. And I have seen that when we actually engage them in addition to medication, when we engage them in activities, a purposeful activity, when they create something for them or for others, when they’re actually supporting each other, then that actually helped them a lot to going back to normal life.

So, I’m talking about 1992 to 1999. I was responsible for seven centers in Bangladesh. I tried to create a model there that can help them in their rehabilitation. And then my life changed again. In 1997, I met a survivor of an acid attack. I was horrified. I was shocked. I couldn’t understand what happened.

MV: Can you tell us a little bit about, very briefly, the history of acid violence in Bangladesh?

MR: Acid is a very corrosive chemical and it can not only destroy the skin. It can go very deep inside the bones and it can create permanent disfigurement. This problem started in late eighties in Bangladesh. The young girls were thrown acid by the young men when they refused a romantic relationship or a marriage proposal. That acid was used by the perpetrator to take revenge. The men did that with an intention that, “if this girl is not mine, she will not be anyone else’s”. And there was no awareness about this acid attack. Even I didn’t know about acid attack.

MV: Was it very taboo as if someone, if someone had been attacked, they did not want anyone to know? And it was something that the family wanted to keep very hidden and there was no justice?

MR: And no, yeah, there was more like the women were blamed for this act. Like what did they do? Why did they raise your voice? Why did they say no? So they were ostracized and there was no treatment facility in the country. Therefore, they had severe disfigurement, which was also difficult for them. So it needed a holistic approach. It’s not just treating them medically. When they go back to the village, they are still ostracized by the community. They are not taken back to school. They thought that other people are horrified by seeing them. And then they become completely a burden of the family. And the treatment, the plastic surgery, reconstructive surgery, that takes long time and it’s very expensive. Over the period of many years, the only treatment facility was available in Dhaka, and there were only eight bed capacity for all types of burns for 160 million people.

So you can imagine how difficult it was for them and then, because it’s a criminal offense, they were under threat. So not only they are receiving the expensive treatment – economically, they are suffering because they may have to sell whatever they have and they’re going through the pain and all this surgery – but also they have to face threats, the whole family, because maybe they have filed a case against the perpetrator.

So there was no organization in Bangladesh to support them and government didn’t have any services for them. There was no law to combat acid violence or providing the adequate services to the survivor so Dr. John Morrison from the UK and I started trying to find out what we can do. We established Acid Survivors Foundation in 1999. First we concentrated on the medical aspect because it was the immediate need. We had to save life. We had to minimize disability. We had to ensure that they can go back home in a safer way. They needed physiotherapy and other types of treatment protocols to actually get better. But when we started working on the medical intervention, we found that actually this is not just about the physical treatment because every year, we were seeing that some of the survivors ended their lives and at least 12 or 15 survivors were developing severe mental illness. We had to admit them in a specialized hospital for treatment. So, we needed an intervention for their psychological treatment, counseling, and psychosocial treatment. And again, there was no psychological or psychosocial intervention in the country. I told you about 1992, I didn’t find that. Now in 1999, I was still searching for that. In 2005, for the first time, we appointed a clinical psychologist.

MV: In the Acid Survivors Foundation?

MR: In Acid Survivors Foundation. We also, by that time, we started in a hospital, a 20-bed hospital, a 40-bed rehabilitation center, and we were bringing experts from the world.

MV: It’s a huge, huge improvement.

MR: It’s a huge, yeah.

MV: Small, small scale compared to 160 million people, but compared to what was initially there.

MR: Yeah, we actually wanted to create a model. This activism created a National Burn Institute and they incorporated burn and plastic surgery in the medical education. Earlier there was no plastic surgery courses.

MV: It’s amazing.

MR: So this movement also resulted in 2000 of having two laws: one for speedy trial of the perpetrator, and one for banning the availability of the acid in the open market. We also created committees to monitor the implementation of the law and they created the fund for supporting the survivors. But then all of that was happening in the Dhaka city. But when the survivors were going back home, there was no support services in the community. So we partnered with different organizations and connected with them with those organizations to develop their capacity. We developed psychosocial support providers at the community level. And most importantly, we developed many survivors as peer support providers. and psychosocial support providers. So my mission was to bring down these acid attacks. You know, it was rising when we started. It was rising at the rate of 40 percent each year. And it rose to about 500 attacks in 2002. And then we had the law in 2002 and then it was coming down. So by 2012, it came down to 50 attacks per year.

MV: So you brought it down 90%?

MR: Yeah. And then by that time we have created this holistic model, that biopsychosocial model. So the legal support, the rehabilitation support, the medical support, all are working together. We started the prevention campaign. The celebrities joined us. The students came forward. There was a huge movement in the country. Media was hugely engaged in this campaign.

MV: So how did this experience start to get you to think about mental health and wellbeing on a wider scale for everybody, not just for survivors of violence?

MR: So that inspired me to think about what we need to do about mental health. Because we all have mental health but our mental health can be affected any time in any way. And we need support for that. So that time mental health is governed by the 1912 Lunacy Act, which considered these people are lunatic. They’re harmful, they need to be institutionalized or cased.

MV: Kept away and can’t be a part of society.

MR: Yeah. The people with mental illness, they are ostracized, facing huge stigma around, there’s no treatment facility, no holistic approach, no psychosocial support system, and no prevention work. There’s no counselors in schools for the children. So then I thought, now I need to do something for mental health. By that time I became an Ashoka fellow. As you said, I’m a changemaker. Yes.

MV: You were a changemaker before you became an Ashoka fellow.

MR: That’s true. That’s true.

MV: They just recognized you for all your hard work.

MR: They recognized me as a senior Ashoka fellow and this enabled me to visualize what can happen, what can be done in mental health. In 2014, I started this Innovation for Wellbeing Foundation. Because for the wellbeing, we, know that there are people who are suffering from mental illness, but we can prevent that. Maybe we can reduce that number. We can limit that number if we are working on wellbeing. So if people’s wellbeing are good – wellbeing means not only physical wellbeing; it means psychological wellbeing, social wellbeing, spiritual wellbeing, financial wellbeing, emotional wellbeing – then we can say there are resources to tackle their mental health situation in a better way.

So we wanted to focus on wellbeing aspect and mental health aspect. And innovation because there was nothing in the country. So what is the solution for Bangladesh? We cannot just bring something from the Western country.

MV: And you think, and Well being is a Western concept or?

MR: Well, the solutions, most of the services, have been developed in the Western countries, especially for mental health treatment. So wellbeing, we have a lot of practices, but they were not considered as wellbeing practices.

MV: So thinking about mental health, that was growing, but then to really bring it together with the concept of financial, physical, spiritual, social, emotional, psychological health as well, as a holistic approach to wellbeing, was not quite the norm or understood or practiced?

MR: Yeah, not understood. Mostly mental health was considered as mental illness. Mental illness is not mental health. Mental health is my potential. Mental health is my ability to work for myself or for others. Ability to manage, cope with my stress. And live a normal life. But when we consider that mental illness, then all this stigma comes.

MV: And it’s the flip side of a positive thing. It’s an illness. So there’s a negative connotation there as well.

MR: Yeah. And language plays a very important role here. So how we address this people who are suffering from mental illness? Lazy or making up or not real? It is forever? They’re worthless? So all this kind of language is actually –

MV: Judgment.

MR: Yes, very judgmental, not only very judgmental but there is no hope. There is no possibility. There is no way to come out from this situation. So that scenario has to change. And that is also because of the law. When the law is saying it’s lunatic, then people think the same way. So first thing was for us, how to change this law.

So Innovation for Wellbeing Foundation created a network called Bangladesh Mental Health Network. And this network started working with different sectors, including people who has experienced mental illness and their family members to change this law. What should be the law? And we drafted an alternative law and finally, in 2018, Bangladesh government passed the Mental Health Act, 2018, which was much more accepting that this is a condition and there are also different types of solutions, but still it was much more medical-model-focused. And in medical model, also we have to consider that whether this is a holistic approach, because it’s not just about giving the medicine, but about whether you’re giving the counseling, whether you are giving follow up services, whether from recovery to rehabilitation to reintegration, whether we are providing these services or not.

And there’s no community-based mental health care support service system in Bangladesh. So our next challenge was how to create that model, how to create a model that will be much more holistic, much more applicable for different types of audiences. One size cannot fit all. Everyone is unique so that was a huge, it’s a huge area. So we tried to focus on three main areas. One is obviously would like to integrate mental health support within the primary health care support service system. Then, another priority we have is to introduce counseling, at least mental health first aid programs, in schools. By that time in 2015, we got the license for introducing mental health first aid program in Bangladesh.So that actually created a huge change because that increased the mental health literacy. And also helped to reduce the stigma around mental illness.

So now in 2024, I see quite a quite a change in this field. Actually, we were only one organization who started working on mental health. And now we have many organizations who are focusing on mental health. We just finished this Regional Wellbeing Summit, which is a kickoff actually to shake us and start a conversation. What is the wellbeing solution for us? What does our country actually need to focus on? How can we support each other? I’m very happy that we had this summit.

This is very special because now we have many actors in mental health field who are active and engaged, to collaborate, to work together, to make a network, a platform for this wellbeing movement in Bangladesh. So we created that network through this wellbeing summit.

MV: So, The Wellbeing Summit Dhaka: it was the first Regional Wellbeing Summit in Asia. Congratulations for that achievement. The theme was Prajano…

MR: Projonmo theke Projonme: Generation to Generation.

MV: And you were at Bangla Academy, a very important place for Bangladesh, a place to celebrate the Bangla language. You had the people there from all areas of work, the youth to the elders. Tell us a little bit about how the event connected with the land, language, and life.

MR: You know this summit talked about why individual wellbeing is important and why it is important for collective wellbeing as well. We talked about how social resources around us are actually supporting our wellbeing. We talked about social and emotional learning. In Bangladesh, in a hierarchical society, is a very, male dominant society. It’s very difficult to deal with your emotion, to express your emotion in a healthy way so women are suffering silence. And men also suffer because in a way they are socialized so that they cannot also express their vulnerability. So what we try to give them a safe space here and have that conversation, what are the barriers and what are the opportunities, what is available actually, and what will be in our future wellbeing agenda for the country. We don’t have even a wellbeing strategy in Bangladesh. We have national mental health strategy. We have a national mental health policy. That’s good, but that is again talking about more what to do after we are suffering. So I think this wellbeing summit is very unique in a way that created an opportunity for us, especially for changemakers, to be together, share their experiences and learn from each other. And also the therapeutic interventions, these art interventions, we have seen that how these artists, the painters, the singers, all the other artists, how they actually engage these people.

MV: It reminds me of, you said the first thing you did with your work as a social worker is you brought the postcards and the coloring and the paper, and that was one of the first ways you were able to engage with people.

MR: Yeah, and I believe that because I have seen that with the survivors of acid attack, I have seen that with the homeless people, the sex workers, and, many other marginalized communities that we work with. Visualization is very important.

Then sustainability: this is the challenge for Bangladesh. We are from Delta and we have very fertile land, but also it’s very prone to disaster. And therefore, it’s very important that we connect this land, the fertility, with wellbeing. Wellbeing always give that fruitation that brings something meaningful into our life. And then also with disaster: we have resilience. We build our resilience. Life has adversity. It will continue like this, but the resilience that we are creating and the way we are supporting the whole nation is supporting each other. That’s the model: how to help themselves and in their daily lives. How to create a safe space. How to live without fear. Fear is a big issue limiting us. So it’s very important that we can, we can actually win this fear. So all theses tips and tricks and fun and all these things, I think it’s all together. I feel like it’s created a new energy.,

MR: And with new energy, what is coming next? Or what needs to come next? Or what do you see already emerging? What do you see for the future of this? Because when we talk about wellbeing for social change, it’s well being in two ways: a culture of inner wellbeing for change makers, but also in changemaking. So normalizing the concept within social change, which is already there, but maybe just knowing that a bit more concretely. And also within the social change sector so changemakers and organizations have those structures in place to encourage that. What do you think is coming next in Bangladesh?

MR: Yeah, it’s important to create a model that can be replicated for the whole country. It has to be cost effective. It can be done with whatever existing resources available. And it is received by the people. What is their aspiration about the next step? It’s important to continue this conversation. Maybe we will start small as like I said, like Acid Survivors Foundation started with a small thing, but that created, as I told you, the National Institute for Burn and Plastic Surgery. And now we have changed the law for mental health from the Lunacy Act. Now we have the National Mental Health Policy, the strategy paper. And obviously one size doesn’t fit everyone, but it has to be from within our local cultural context, the social structure, and the human resources that we have. And I believe that everyone has that capacity, the resources, the ability. We just need to create that opportunity for them. And if we are able to educate and train people, they will be a great resource for the community. And that might be the solution for Bangladesh.

MV: Monira, you have told us about your work, you have told us about your career, about the amazing things you’ve done, the changes that have been taking place in Bangladesh, you’ve told us about your impressions from the Wellbeing Summit Dhaka… and my last question: You’ve mentioned a few things as you were explaining to us about your work and starting from your times in university to your first role as a social worker, then through the Acid Survivors Foundation, now with Innovation for Wellbeing Foundation. Under all of that, at the heart of your work as a social changemaker, what is your motivation, your inspiration, your dream? Your message to the world? What is there?

MR: We all are connected wherever we are and whoever we are and whatever we are doing. It’s very important that everyone is content and happy and living the fullest of their potentials and also that we work as a community, an aware community. And by collaboration, by working together, by supporting each other, we can actually advance much more. We can progress much more. We can do much more for ourselves as an individual, for our family, for our community, for the planet. So this is my aspiration that we really need to looking at Ecological Belonging and we need to connect to the life and the planet together.

MV: Well, thank you so much, Monira , for speaking with me today live in Bangladesh. It’s been a true pleasure. Donyabhat. I hope I said that correctly.

MR: Yes. Yes. Yes. Very well. Donyabhat.

MV: And we’ll see you soon. Thank you.

MR: Thank you. Thank you, Madelaine.

Thank you for listening to this episode of, At The Heart Of It. For more news, research, and stories about wellbeing and social change, visit wellbeing-project.org. The Wellbeing Project is the world’s leading organization advocating for the wellbeing of changemakers and for wellbeing in changemaking. We believe wellbeing inspires welldoing. Thanks for listening and see you next time.

AT THE HEART OF IT – EPISODE 1

Satish Kumar

A Lifetime of Love

In this inaugural episode of our series, we’re honored to feature Satish Kumar, a renowned peace activist, former monk, Editor Emeritus of Resurgence & Ecologist Magazine, and founder of Schumacher College. Satish captured global attention in 1962 by walking 8,000 miles without money from India to the nuclear capitals of Moscow, Paris, London, and Washington, D.C., advocating against the use of atomic weapons. His journey, spanning over two and a half years, ignited crucial conversations about nuclear disarmament, human rights, and environmental wellbeing.

Now at 87, Satish continues to inspire as an author, speaker, and elder with organizations like The Wellbeing Project. In a special conversation recorded in Paris’s Parc des Buttes-Chaumont, he shares insights on wellbeing and his vision for the future. Let’s get to the heart of it.

Let's dive right in! Let's dive right in!

LISTEN TO EPISODE 1

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From This Episode

Full episode transcript Full episode transcript

This transcript has been edited for clarity

Welcome to At the Heart of It, a podcast where we explore issues at the heart of our world’s biggest challenges and their solutions. We’re on a journey inward going into ourselves, reflecting on who we are listening to humanity’s collective story. Our guides are the visionary leaders, activists, scholars, and practitioners who are changing the world and whose own inner journeys of wellbeing inspire their welldoing.

Today’s guest is someone whose lifelong work is an inspiration for this podcast. Satish Kumar is a peace pilgrim, activist, and former monk who gained international recognition in 1962 for walking, on foot, with no money, from his home in India to what were then the four capitals of the nuclear world, Moscow, Paris, London, and Washington, D.C., to protest the use of atomic weapons. This journey of more than 8,000 miles over two and a half years not only sparked dialogues on nuclear disarmament, but also its interconnection with human rights, ecology and human and planetary wellbeing.

Today, at 87 years young, Satish continues to share messages of peace, hope, and compassion with the world as an author, editor, speaker, educator, and elder of many organizations, including The Wellbeing Project.

In a special conversation recorded in the Parc Butte Chaumont of Paris, Satish reflected on the role of wellbeing in his work and his vision for the future. Let’s get to the heart of it.

Madelaine VanDerHeyden (MV): All right. Well, welcome to the podcast. Today I have a very special guest here with me. We’re sitting in the beautiful in Paris. It’s a gorgeous spring day, the sun is shining, the birds are out, the dogs are out, the flowers are starting to bloom. And I’m sitting here next to Satish Kumar. Satish, welcome.

Satish Kumar (SK): Thank you. My pleasure to be on your podcast.

MV: Thank you, Satish. Now, Satish, you know The Wellbeing Project’s motto. What we believe is that wellbeing inspires welldoing. And you have had a very, very exciting, meaningful, long career of welldoing. And I want to know a little bit about your inner wellbeing journey. Can you tell us about what that has been like for you?

SK: Yes. I am now 87 years old and I feel very well in my body, in my mind, in my spirit. And I think the source of my wellbeing is my connection with the earth and also with my inner spirit. I was born in Rajasthan, in India. And when I was four years old, my father died. And so my mother was crying, my sisters were crying, my brothers were crying, and I could not understand what was going on. Why father is not moving? Why is he not walking? Why is he not talking? And so I asked my mother, what’s happening? Why are you crying? And why is father not speaking? And so she said, your father is now dead. I said, what is dead? When one is dead, one doesn’t speak, and one is gone, and you never speak with that person again, she said. So that was a big shock in my life. And so I start to think about death from age four years old. And I started to ask, is there a way of stopping people dying? And that led me to my Jain guru, whom I asked, is there a way to stop people dying?

And after a bit of thought, he said to me, the only way to stop this cycle of birth and death is to renounce the world. And so, become a monk. I decided to become a monk. So at age nine, I left home and I became a monk. And as a monk, you have to walk with bare feet. Be in nature. So I was walking in the sand dunes, along the rivers, among the trees, the open sky.

And so that is how kind of my spiritual and physical wellbeing started. And then, after nine years in monkhood, I left monkhood and I joined a Gandhian ashram, a community in India. And I lived there more as a kind of social and physical work, like art, craft, gardening, cooking, agriculture, service to community. So Gandhian values of nonviolence and peace. That was my kind of main ethos and main pilgrimage for another nine years. And then when I was 26 years old, I was inspired by a great British philosopher, Bertrand Russell, the Nobel Prize winning author of Principal Mathematical. And so he was protesting against the nuclear bomb.

MV: In what year was this?

SK: That was in 1961. So, in 1961, he was protesting against the nuclear bomb and he was arrested and he was put in jail. And when I read this news in the newspaper, I said to myself, “Here is a man of 90 going to jail for peace in the world. What am I doing, young man, sitting here drinking coffee in a coffee house?” And so that inspired me and led me to set off with a friend on a walk from India to four nuclear capitals of the world. Moscow, Paris, London, and Washington, D. C. And so a friend, And I started to walk without any money. Both of us walked through many countries – 15 countries, 13,000 kilometers – without any money, and meeting ordinary people, talking to politicians, talking to journalists, talking to students in universities and schools, talking to religious people in churches and mosques. And so I encountered people and communities and communities and farmers and workers and politicians around the world. So two and a half years of that peace pilgrimage from New Delhi, from the grave of Mahatma Gandhi to Washington, DC, the grave of John F. Kennedy. That was a great, great journey. And then I went back to India and then I wrote a book about my journey.

I translated the book by Martin Luther King, The Stride Toward Freedom, the book which Martin Luther King had given me. So I wanted to introduce his ideas to Indian readers. And so I translated that book. And then, I came back to England. In 1973, I became the editor of Resurgence magazine and I edited that magazine for more than 40 years. And during that time, I also started Schumacher College, for ecological and spiritual studies and studies of wellbeing. And so that has been my life, in a nutshell. Long journey. Long story.

MV: But Satish, you, I mean, you shared obviously you have your pilgrimage walk that you did as a young man. That must not have been easy walking all the way around the world. And wellbeing is not only about acknowledging things that go well in life, but also acknowledging the things that are hard. So in, in your experience, have there been any highs? Have there been any lows? How have you dealt with those as they come as they go?

SK: I mean, I tried to practice equanimity, so of course there have been highs and lows. The nuclear threat was very, very, powerful and unsettling and the Cold War was very unsettling and the kind of conflict between the Soviet Union and the United States of America and NATO countries, all that were very unsettling. Yet I thought that answer to all our problems is love. And so we have to practice love. We have to spread the love. And I also see, when I see low, I also see high. A majority of people in the world are not involved in Cold War. The majority of people are not involved in nuclear bombs. The majority of people are not fighting wars. The majority of people are farmers, teachers, doctors, nurses, artists, musicians, everyday people, they are living good life and practicing more love than hatred in everyday life.

So that gives me a bit more inspiration. So I try to have a kind of balanced view rather than get exhausted, anxious; rather than get depressed and fearful that everything is going bad in the world. Of course things are going in the in the world which are bad and I do my best and I act out of love rather than out of fear. I act out of love rather than anxiety because my job is to do my best. I cannot control the outcome. I cannot control what will be the result. I can only control my actions. My words, my thoughts, my speech, and my actions. So, everyday, my focus is on action. What can I do? Not how the world is, but how can I serve the world? How can I make the world a little bit better place than before? And so with that, I work and by not worrying, not being anxious, not being fearful, not being angry, that also keeps me healthy and well.

MV: Well, it’s great advice to all of us, which is the only thing you can control is yourself.

SK: Yeah, exactly.

MV: Sometimes we can’t even control ourselves. But you mentioned just now meeting Martin Luther King and he gave you his book, and on the way here, you were telling me that he was probably one of the most, if not the most, interesting person you’ve met in your career and in your journey around the world.

SK: Yes!

MV: And now now you have this really wonderful perspective on wellbeing. Do you feel that within the social change space, talking about changemakers in the broadest sense of the term – artists, politicians, humanitarians, human rights activists – do you think that over time, has the conversation around their wellbeing grown and changed over the years? What have you noticed?

SK: Yes, I would say that there is a greater awareness, especially among young people about our wellbeing and wellbeing of planet Earth as being interconnected. So I see more and more young people in universities and even in schools. When I meet them, I find that young people are very much interested.

There’s a rising awareness among young people. Still a long way to go. Still they are in minority. The majority of our schools are still teaching young people for jobs. But many young people are saying, that what kind of jobs are we going to do, and what kind of jobs they will be, which will impact the Earth, and maybe destroy the Earth or damage the Earth or harm the Earth.

So that is a good question. And, Martin Luther King, as I said, was one of the great inspirations that I discovered or I felt or I encountered. Because he was an embodiment of love and action because he said that we don’t know what the results will be. But we have to fight however we can with love.

And so he said, the white people as much my brothers and sisters as black people. And I’m not against white people. I’m against racism and racism is bad for white people as it is bad for black people. And so, how we can live without discrimination? Without judgement? Live as brothers and sisters? I don’t choose my color. I’m born with whatever color I am given. And so I have to live with my color. Whether you are white or black or brown or whatever colour you are. Doesn’t matter. All colors are beautiful. Black is as beautiful as white is beautiful. And brown is beautiful. And yellow is beautiful. So yhat kind of generosity of spirit, and inclusivity, and yet radicalism, he was a radical lover. So my book, Radical Love, in a way he embodied that. He was an embodiment of love. And I always felt after meeting him, the truth comes second, love comes first. And because in truth, we disagree. My truth is different than your truth. And my point of view is different from your point of view.

And, I can say I’m right, you are wrong. So that kind of, disagreement can lead to conflict. Whereas love unites. Anger and hatred divide. And so, what I learned from Martin Luther King is whatever you do, your fight, your struggle, your action should be inspired by love rather than by hatred and judgment and discrimination. And that has stayed with me all my life.

MV: That’s beautiful. And you talked about children now, we’re educating them around mental health and wellbeing and they’re becoming a bit more aware of it. But what about for adults? I mean, in 1964 when you met Martin Luther King, were both of you talking about your own inner wellbeing when you had that meeting, or would that have been something that would have never crossed your mind at that point?

SK: I mean, the word wellbeing is now much more in a common language than at that time. At that time, peace was much more common in our language because of the nuclear threat. And there was also a kind of, you can say, justice. Martin Luther King always said, justice delayed is justice denied. So we cannot afford to have justice delayed. And so, peace and justice were much more prominent in our thinking, in our consciousness.

But, the source of lack of wellbeing is our social conditions. And if people are exploited, or ignored or dominated, then people feel unwell, psychologically unwell, and psychological unwellness is connected with physical unwellness. And therefore, if we can treat people with love and with respect and with dignity, then I think wellbeing will be a natural outcome.

And so, social wellbeing, ecological and planetary wellbeing, and a personal spiritual wellbeing are all interlinked. And that way, even in the 60s, I think, the underlying message was there, even if, the word wellbeing was not so much in common.

MV: Well, that’s one of the things that The Wellbeing Project hasn’t done since then. We were formed around eight years ago as we’ve never defined wellbeing because part of the journey is each person connecting to the concept in whichever way feels right for them and in different places around the world, different communities and different cultures are looking at it through their own perspectives and again connecting with it in whichever way that feels that feels meaningful.

SK: Yeah. For me wellbeing, personal wellbeing to start with – we can go to social and ecological wellbeing as well later – but to start with, your personal wellbeing starts with contentment. To have this wonderful planet, wonderful community, a human body: I can love, I can serve, I can think, I can feel, I can write, I can walk, I can see, I can do so many things. So, being contentment with your body and with your two hands and two legs, I can work and I can make things, I can build a house, I can grow food, I can write a book, I can dance. So being grateful and contented within your body and satisfied and contented. That’s the kind of beginning, the first step towards your wellbeing. Discontentment: whatever you have is never enough. Whatever money you have is never enough. Whatever kind of house you have is never enough. Whatever job you have is never enough. Discontentment breeds illness and unwellbeing. So, first advice I can give from my own experience is learn to be contented and celebrate and grateful to what you have rather than what you don’t have. That’s the first step.

The second step is then whatever I pursue, I try to seek quality of life rather than quantities of possessions. Because quantities you can have more, more, more, and how much you have, they are never good enough because the quality is missing. So if we can focus on quality of food, quality of our clothes, quality of our house, quality of our conversation, quality of our thinking, everything quality. So less is more. So shifting our focus from quantity to quality is for me a source of personal wellbeing.

And then social wellbeing comes with dignity and respect. Every human being should be valued as a human being. At the moment, we see human beings as a resource for running an organization or running a business or running an industry or making profit for an organization or something. So that is creating social unrest and unwellbeing. People don’t feel respected, don’t feel appreciated, don’t feel recognized for who they are. So social wellbeing comes with this. Every human being has their dignity and respect and they are valuable and they are not just a resource for making money.

And so planetary wellbeing starts with appreciation that nature is not an object. Nature is not an inanimate object. Nature is a subject. Nature is a living organism. If we have that kind of understanding of nature, then we will love nature, we’ll respect nature, we’ll conserve nature, we’ll protect nature, we’ll not pollute nature, we’ll not fill our oceans with plastic, and our atmosphere with greenhouse gases, and our rivers with sewage, and our soil with chemicals. All that we do because we think nature is inanimate and it’s just an object for our kind of economic growth.

So these three things we can learn that I think can move towards a proper personal wellbeing, social wellbeing, and planetary wellbeing.

MV: So we’ve been talking about quite a few different things. You were just sharing about what you think the definition of wellbeing might be. You’ve also talked about, your entire journey being a pilgrim, meeting with Martin Luther King, things that you admired about him and his perspective. You’ve talked about what you think may be at the root of some of our problems today, which is discontentment, a lack of fraternity or brotherhood or love for others. Taking that all into account, when you look at your own life, your decision to become a monk, your decision to go on your pilgrim, your decision to do the work that you do and have continued to do through your whole life, at the heart of all of that, what has been your inspiration, your motivation, your hope, your message to the world. What has been deep inside of you?

SK: The inspiration for me has been the word to be a pilgrim. On this planet Earth, we can live in two ways. Either we can live as tourists or as pilgrims. And I wrote a book called Earth Pilgrim. And I even made a film for the BBC called Earth Pilgrim. And I said we all humans are pilgrims of the earth. What does that mean? It means that we are not here to take. But the tourists take. Whereas pilgrims accept and share. So when you are a tourist, you always want a good hotel, good food, good service, good museums, and then whatever you have is never enough, never satisfied. You’re always complaining.

Well, the pilgrim never complains, but the pilgrim always helps to make things as good as you can and supports and celebrates. So, my inspiration has been in my life is that live on this planet as a pilgrim and a whole life is a pilgrimage. I mean, I’ve been to all the pilgrimages as well, but I would say life is a pilgrimage, not just in a kind of religious sense that you as a kind of Christian or Hindu, you go to a holy place as a pilgrim, but living on this planet. Thinking the whole planet is a temple, the whole planet is holy, the whole planet is sacred and it’s our home and we have to live lightly on this planet and celebrate life and accept life as it comes with warts and all. We love winter and we love summer and we love spring and we love winter. Uh, dark, and we love light, and we love every moment of our lives. That is a kind of mentality of a pilgrim, in my view. And so if we live like a pilgrim, then we will be well in our own lives, and we’ll make planet a lovely place. So that has been my inspiration in my life.

MV: And that has been your inspiration. Now, if you were to share one message with everyone listening, what would it be?

SK: One message I would like to share is the mission of our life should be to make everything beautiful. Beauty is source of nourishment for the soul, for the spirit. Nature is very beautiful. The flowers are beautiful, the trees are beautiful, the birds are beautiful.

MV: This day is beautiful!

SK: Day is beautiful, nature is beautiful, but humans in their kind of pursuit of economic growth make things quick and ugly and functional, but not beautiful. So one message I would like to say, I walk in beauty before me. I walk in beauty behind me. I walk in beauty above me. I walk in beauty below me. I walk in beauty all around me. The whole world is beautiful. The whole world is beautiful. The whole world is beautiful. Ho!

So that’s my one word message: seek beauty. Beautiful thoughts. Beautiful words. Beautiful actions. Beautiful things, beauty all around. If we can pursue beauty, we’ll be happy.

MV: Oh, thank you Satish. Out of among the many things that you are in life, you’re also a mind reader. Because I was going to ask you to sing that song because you sang that for us at The Wellbeing Summit in Brussels. It was so wonderful in that moment of everyone standing up and singing that with you. Really, really moving. Thank you for sharing that with us today.

SK: My pleasure, my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me on your podcast. Thank you so much. My pleasure.

Thank you for listening to this episode of At the Heart of It. For more news, research, and stories about wellbeing and social change, visit wellbeing-project.org. The Wellbeing Project is the world’s leading organization advocating for the wellbeing of changemakers and for wellbeing in changemaking. We believe wellbeing inspires welldoing. Thanks for listening and see you next time!

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AT THE HEART OF IT – EPISODE 0

A Declaration of Wellbeing

Discover the mission behind The Wellbeing Project and the power of wellbeing in changemaking

Welcome to At The Heart Of It, a new podcast by The Wellbeing Project. In this inaugural episode, we dive into our mission to revolutionize social change through the lens of wellbeing. Explore who we are, our global network of changemakers, and why wellbeing is central to creating impactful, lasting change. Join us as we share our journey, values, and the powerful belief that wellbeing fuels effective action.

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From This Episode

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTFULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Welcome to At The Heart Of It, a new podcast from The Wellbeing Project. We’re the world’s leading organization advocating for the wellbeing of changemakers and for wellbeing in changemaking. We’re on a mission to change how we do social change, and we’re really happy you’re here.

You may have some questions already, like why wellbeing?

Or what’s a changemaker?

Maybe even, wellbeing?

Don’t we have more important things to talk about?

All good questions, but let’s just start with who we are.

The Wellbeing Project is a global network of thousands of individuals and organizations who all share one common belief that wellbeing inspires welldoing.

Our partners are social entrepreneurs, doctors, humanitarian workers, researchers, therapists, Indigenous leaders, elected officials, caregivers, teachers, frontline workers, people from all walks of life who see the power of wellbeing to make our world a better place.

Since 2014, we have been emerging as a co-creation from some of the world’s biggest social impact organizations, like Ashoka, Synergos, Impact Hub, Skoll Foundation, Porticus, and Georgetown University.

We’ve added many more institutions along the way to this collective effort. All of these institutions work with incredible changemakers from around the world, and they were starting to see something really troubling among them.

The people who had so much love for the world – for their communities, their countries, the planet – so much love that they were dedicating their lives to serving others: they were struggling. They’re facing chronic stress, burnout, anxiety, depression. They were facing traumas in their personal and professional lives. They were feeling the weight of the world on their shoulders. Fighting for change in their outer worlds, as well as on the inside. They were doing all of this alone. In silence. Because this was the culture of social change: to give every part of yourself in the service of others. To work yourself to burnout. To put your work first and your health last. This was the norm. And to share your struggles was taboo. A sign of weakness. A sign of failure.

And wellbeing? Who has time to think about wellbeing when you’re trying to save the world?

The Wellbeing Project was born out of the growing recognition that changemakers need wellbeing to be their best selves. Not just successful leaders, effective activists, and hard workers, but their best full selves: community members, parents, siblings, individuals, dreamers, creators, human beings.

In 2014, we accompanied dozens of seasoned changemakers on a journey of inner development to understand their struggles and help foster their wellbeing. What we and these changemakers saw was nothing short of transformation. A whole new way of being. A whole new way of leading. A whole new way of driving change. The ripple effects of inner wellbeing were felt in their organizations and in their impact, and it was clear: wellbeing inspires welldoing.

So since 2014, we have been working to share this message of hope in the social change sector, to educate, inspire, and guide changemakers on a path to wellbeing, and strengthen their approach to welldoing.

If wellbeing inspires welldoing within an individual and an organization, what about our societies? We are now seeing a monumental drive worldwide for our economic systems, political structures, and legal frameworks to enable the wellbeing of people and the planet. We have seen wellbeing become the driver and the destination of social change itself.

But while we’ve seen such an inspiring transformation in this space, we still have work to do. We recognize the growing complexity and intensity of the world today. We’re facing social and environmental battles from left to right, north to south. We’re facing political division, economic instability, social inequality, environmental destruction, injustice, and trauma.

Our world needs social change more than ever. And at the heart of it, we need wellbeing. So welcome to our podcast, where we’re telling stories of wellbeing changing the world. We’re meeting the changemakers whose own journeys of wellbeing inspire the welldoing, digging deep into what this has meant to them and understanding the influence of wellbeing in their lives.

You’ll hear stories of inner development work like self-reflection, personal growth, and healing. You’ll hear stories on key topics like human rights, climate change, and leadership. And you’ll hear stories of social change like advocacy, education, and community service.

But what you won’t hear is a definition of wellbeing because we believe in the emotional. We believe in the unique. And we believe in wellbeing that’s defined by individuals, that’s defined in different regions, based on the land, the culture, and the history.

Together, we’re bringing individual colors to a global mosaic, a collective painting of our shared commitment to wellbeing. We asked thousands of people to help us capture the spirit of our movement through words, resulting in a declaration of wellbeing.

Here’s Jazmine Williams, reading it at our first-ever global summit in 2022.

Good morning. My name is Jazmine Williams and I’d like to share with you all this morning a declaration of wellbeing written by Anne Mortifee.

A spirit of promise is calling us inward to see ourselves clearly, to heal what needs healing and bring harmony back to the earth. We feel it in the depth of our nature and rise to the call of life’s urge to evolve. We are Pathfinders. Caregivers, weavers of dreams, pilgrims on a journey to discover the self from every walk of life.

Every faith, race, and culture, the sounds of our footsteps are heard. Inspired by the ones who traveled before us, we press on for the ones yet to follow. Moved by an ancient vision of a more compassionate world. We seek wellbeing for all of creation, for love and justice. Peace and truth to thrive and enliven us all.

We have learned that the light which ignites the stars is the same light that flows through all things. And through all things flows wellbeing.

So let’s jump in, let’s dive deep, and let’s get to the heart of it.

Thank you for listening to this episode of, At The Heart Of It. For more news research and stories about wellbeing and social change, visit wellbeing-project.org. The Wellbeing Project is the world’s leading organization advocating for the wellbeing of changemakers and for wellbeing in changemaking. We believe wellbeing inspires while doing. Thanks for listening and see you next time!

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Meet Andrei Ram, a renowned yoga teacher and founder of Breath Based Yoga. From Colombia, he rose as a Contemporary Dancer and holds an Anthropology degree. Trained by Master Sri Dharma Mittra for over a decade, Andrei shaped Yoga Teacher Training at New York’s Dharma Yoga Center.

With emphasis on breath, Andrei Ram merges Himalayan and Tibetan traditions, training instructors in 30+ countries. He revitalizes yoga for modern life with integrity and adaptability.

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ABOUT THE WELLBEING SUMMIT BOGOTÁ

The Wellbeing Summit Bogotá will gather local changemakers across Iberoamérica in the region’s first summit focused on the intersection of wellbeing and social change. Honouring local culture, ancestral indigenous knowledge and traditions, and lived experiences of changemakers in the region, the Summit will introduce the wellbeing movement in Iberoamérica, sparking dialogues on how inner wellbeing contributes to positive social transformation.

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The Business of Giving Podcast The Business of Giving Podcast

``WHY INNER WELLBEING IS ESSENTIAL FOR ALL CHANGEMAKERS`` THE BUSINESS OF GIVING WITH DENVER FREDERICK ``WHY INNER WELLBEING IS ESSENTIAL FOR ALL CHANGEMAKERS`` THE BUSINESS OF GIVING WITH DENVER FREDERICK

Social activists have a disproportionately poor quality of life. Many struggle with depression, burnout, high divorce rates, and financial pressure. And while 75% of changemakers surveyed felt that looking after their wellbeing was very important, only 25% reported they actually did to a great extent.

The Wellbeing Project was created to change the culture of the field of social change to one welcoming of inner wellbeing, and to catalyze an infrastructure to support everyone working in the field. They believe that wellbeing inspires welldoing. And here to discuss this work with us is Aaron Pereira and Sandrine Woitrin, the project leads of The Wellbeing Project.

TRANSCRIPT & MORE

Failure Files x The Wellbeing ProjectFailure Files x The Wellbeing Project

Failure is a part of life, especially for those working on complex issues for social change. Yet, very few people talk about failure, the deep impact it has on individuals as well as those around them, and the life lessons that come from failing.
To break this silence, The Wellbeing Project is partnering with India Development Review (IDR).

The partnership with IDR will bring forth stories at the intersection of failure and well-being through IDR’s Failure Files, a multimedia initiative that seeks to normalise conversations around failure in the pursuit of social change.

We invite you to tune into the Failure Files podcast, to hear the inspiring stories of people who have failed forward. Listen to social entrepreneurs, a Dalit rights activist, and an Olympic gold medallist tell us about their failures, how it impacted both individual and collective well-being, and what the road to recovery and resilience looks like.

EPISODE 1

Having a dream is not enough | Vishal Talreja, Suchetha Bhat

In Part I of this conversation with IDR, Dream a Dream’s co-founder Vishal Talreja and CEO Suchetha Bhat share the story of the organisation’s implosion, Vishal’s burnout, and how owning up to failure was the first step in figuring out the way to build back up.

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EPISODE 2

The road to recovery | Suchetha Bhat, Vishal Talreja

In Part II of this conversation, Dream a Dream CEO Suchetha Bhat and co-founder Vishal Talreja talk about what it took to rebuild an organisation in crisis, and how that led to discovering a new kind of leadership—one that the world needs more of.

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EPISODE 3

Preparing for a marathon, not a sprint | Thenmozhi Soundararajan

What does self-care mean for those who are fighting systems of oppression and discrimination that are set up against them? On this episode, Thenmozhi Soundararajan, founder and executive director of Equality Labs, a Dalit civil rights organisation, talks about how systems of oppression affect well-being, what healing looks like for individuals and communities, and why failure is an opportunity to build power.

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ABOUT INDIA DEVELOPMENT REVIEW ABOUT INDIA DEVELOPMENT REVIEW

India Development Review (IDR) is Asia’s largest online media platform covering social change. IDR publishes cutting-edge ideas, lessons and insights, written by and for the people working on some of India’s toughest problems.

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